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Topic: Banned from the LB Community Forum (Read 7061 times) |
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Alincon
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #9 on: Mar 12th, 2015, 2:50pm » |
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Richard said he would reply to personal emails as the courteous thing to do. I did send him an email in the spirit of "all is forgiven, please come back!", but have not received a reply.
Has anyone else tried emailing him?
If we all did, would it make a difference?
r.m.
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Jack Kelly
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #10 on: Mar 12th, 2015, 3:21pm » |
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I think we should all leave him alone for the time being. If nothing else, he probably needs a break from LBB for a while. He will read the forum posts when he's ready.
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Richard Russell
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #11 on: Mar 13th, 2015, 1:08pm » |
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Just a temporary return here to give me a chance to reply to Alyce's latest claims, since I am unable to do so on her forum:
Quote:| If you read Richard's own words above, you will find that he knew we were blocking him from sending private messages and his response was to make new accounts to get around this block. He knew he was acting against our wishes and he used devious methods to get his way. |
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I have always been completely open and honest about the fact that I created new accounts at the LB forum in order to bypass the block on sending private messages.
Quote:| I received many complaints from people he contacted privately |
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Never have I been contacted directly (or indirectly) about such 'complaints'. Without exception the few private messages I sent were directly relevant to an issue the OP had raised on the forum, typically suggesting that using LBB might be a solution. I find it hard to understand how anybody could have any objections to such a communication; I wonder if Alyce challenged them on the validity of their complaints.
Quote:| I attempted to contact him privately to resolve this. He did not reply. He writes that he did not receive my messages. |
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I did not, and frankly I am doubtful that they were sent since as far as I know all my email addresses have been working at all times, and I am always careful to check my junk mailboxes etc.
Quote:| I joined his forum to attempt to contact him that way. I requested that he email me so that we could discuss it privately and "we can solve this amicably". If you read his words above, you'll see that he saw that message and chose to ignore it. |
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Certainly I saw that message (it is still visible here). You will note that it says "As always, you are welcome to contact me via email." which is by no stretch of the imagination a "request" that I contact her: it simply confirms that, should I wish to, I can. Since by that stage I had already been banned from the LB forum I had no wish to.
Quote:| Richard refers to the forum's rules. The first rule listed is, "This forum exists for the promotion and discussion of the Liberty BASIC language. Other programming languages may not be promoted here." That is exactly what he was doing when he was promoting LBB. |
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LB Booster is not "another" programming language - it is an alternative implementation of the Liberty BASIC language, in exactly the same way that there are alternative implementations of C (e.g. GCC and Visual C) and of Pascal and of BBC BASIC etc. It is ridiculous to claim that the rule quoted above applies to LBB.
Quote:| Carl is an outstanding individual who always treats others kindly, respectfully and fairly. |
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The implication here appears to be that I do not. I vigorously deny that, and I would challenge Alyce to present any evidence that I have ever behaved in an unkind, disrespectful or unfair way towards anybody.
Quote:| We are sorry that we must do so now, but this is our first and last post on this subject. |
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Note that once again Alyce has banned me before posting her message, making it impossible for me to reply to her false allegations. She even appears to have blocked the IP address of the anonymous web proxy which I was previously using to access the forum as a guest.
Quote:| Richard is banned for repeated misuse of the private messaging system to promote his competing product and for ignoring my attempt(s) to contact him to resolve the issue. |
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I find it very strange that only a few days ago Alyce posted at her forum that discussion of LBB there was now allowed; a very welcome and encouraging change of stance. I wonder what has gone on behind the scenes to trigger this U-turn.
Richard.
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Richard Russell
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #12 on: Mar 14th, 2015, 10:51am » |
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Stefan posted this on the LB forum:
Quote:| LBB is not a different implementation of LB, it is a translator. LBB uses the LB syntax and language to convert it into BBC BASIC for Windows. |
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If you apply that argument, GCC is not an implementation of the C language, because it translates the C into assembler code. Similarly VB.NET is not an implementation of the Visual BASIC language because it translates the BASIC to CLR bytecode, and Jython is not an implementation of the Python language because it translates the Python to Java!
It's not relevant how a compiler works 'under the hood'; if it accepts Liberty BASIC source code as input and generates a runnable executable as output it is an implementation of the Liberty BASIC language.
Richard.
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lancegary
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #13 on: Mar 14th, 2015, 9:48pm » |
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on Mar 14th, 2015, 10:51am, Richard Russell wrote:Stefan posted this on the LB forum:
If you apply that argument, GCC is not an implementation of the C language, because it translates the C into assembler code. Similarly VB.NET is not an implementation of the Visual BASIC language because it translates the BASIC to CLR bytecode, and Jython is not an implementation of the Python language because it translates the Python to Java!
It's not relevant how a compiler works 'under the hood'; if it accepts Liberty BASIC source code as input and generates a runnable executable as output it is an implementation of the Liberty BASIC language.
Richard. |
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Hmm. The original LB also has a odd relationship with Smalltalk. But Mr Russell, why do you worry so much what these people think or say? The very small mindedness of their actions, and their self serving rationalisations of their pettiness should speak for themselves. They are not impartial judges of your work, and you should not let their inability to handle your exposure of the inferiority of their product and the hollowness of their promises of improvement as expressed in their vindictive ostracism of all who dare utter the name LBB, take away your peace of mind. It is precisely because your work is so good that they are so angry. In Shakespeare's terms, they protest too much...
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Mystic
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #14 on: Mar 17th, 2015, 7:20pm » |
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Due to the "conversation" on the LB forums I found your wonderful version!
After installing it and briefly checking things out it would be a great tragedy for you not to continue support for LBB.
This community would truly loose a fantastic tool!
Please reconsider and ignore disgruntled folks. Bask in your success, and not the failure of others.
Thanks!!!
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- Rick
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Richey
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #15 on: Mar 17th, 2015, 10:23pm » |
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on Mar 17th, 2015, 7:20pm, Mystic wrote:Due to the "conversation" on the LB forums I found your wonderful version!
After installing it and briefly checking things out it would be a great tragedy for you not to continue support for LBB.
This community would truly loose a fantastic tool!
Please reconsider and ignore disgruntled folks. Bask in your success, and not the failure of others.
Thanks!!! |
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The irony is that it is called 'Liberty BASIC' and yet there seems to be a concerted effort on the LB Community Forum to limit the free discussion of LBB and its benefits for LB users, which is detrimental to users interests.
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Richard Russell
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #16 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 12:35am » |
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Once again I find myself having to use this forum to respond to comments posted at the LB Community Forum, where I am banned.
Rod Bird wrote:
Quote:| There is an implied assumption that we have campaigned against Richard and that we have all actively hounded him out of the forum. In fact we have been actively trying to include him in the forum, wishing he would support LB, which he has done in the past and rather well. |
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That is a straw man argument. Mystic didn't say that I had been "hounded out of the forum" he said the LB community were "blocking any attempt of this person trying to share their hard work" which is the case.
Quote:| Richard has self excluded himself from this forum more than once, simply because he does not get his own way. |
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The truth is that, about a year ago, I requested that discussion of LBB on the forum be permitted. Alyce apparently consulted with the other senior staff members and the change of policy was agreed. However I was then informed that Carl had vetoed the proposal; on that basis I decided that I couldn't remain a member.
Quote:| This is a LB forum and needs to stay focused on that software. LBB is awesome and a great achievement but there are quite substantial differences and it needs its own forum. |
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The "differences" Rod refers to are of course in nearly every case a functionality which LBB has that LB4 hasn't, or something which works properly in LBB but doesn't in LB4 because of a bug. The great majority of programs which run in LB 4.04 run perfectly in LBB with no modifications. Therefore I cannot see any valid argument for not allowing LBB to be mentioned at a forum intended to support users of the Liberty BASIC language.
Quote:| To think that they can work together is naive since LB is based on Smalltalk and LBB, on BBC BASIC, so neither author understands each others system or constraints. |
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I think Carl should be allowed to speak for himself. From a technical standpoint it would, in principle, be entirely possible for a 'hybrid' product to be developed. For example I could incorporate some of LBB's technology in a DLL, which could be called from SmallTalk in exactly the way the existing LB4 calls its custom DLLs. This approach could substantially solve the problem Carl has with LB5, in that his tools vendor has discontinued support for native GUI widgets; LBB (or more precisely the LBLIB library) could provide that support.
Quote:| I postulate this scenario, I build an exact replica of a Ferrari that can run at ten times the speed of a real Ferrari. I then roll it in to a Ferrari showroom and say "hey I want to promote this car here and I want to give it away, not just this one but as many as I can give away" |
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I would say that's a poor analogy. The LB Community Forum isn't like a showroom for Liberty BASIC; its primary purpose isn't to attract custom for Carl. Rather it is (or should be) providing support for existing users of the language, whether that be Carl's implementation or mine. How many people have given up on Liberty BASIC entirely because Carl's version is so slow and bug-ridden? How many might still be using it today if they had discovered LBB earlier?
Richard.
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Mystic
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #17 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 12:44am » |
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on Mar 20th, 2015, 12:35am, Richard Russell wrote: How many people have given up on Liberty BASIC entirely because Carl's version is so slow and bug-ridden? How many might still be using it today if they had discovered LBB earlier?
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Definitely agree with this one! I'm running into the same mess with a CMS I use.
It's frustrating that things with great potential are stifled due to poor vision.
Don't get me started on the Amiga! LOL
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- Rick
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Mystic
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #18 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 12:56am » |
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From LB Forums
Alyce wrote on the LB forums
Quote:LBB may be mentioned here, but not promoted. We believe that is an amicable solution and we have tried to work this out with Richard for four years.
Richard is an amazingly talented programmer, and I wish him well.
If LBB is mentioned, we will point folks to Richard's forum for discussion.
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At least that means LBB can be discussed in front of others and still attract potential users.
I'm sure they will watch carefully and draw a fine line between "mention" and anything else.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2015, 12:58am by Mystic » |
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- Rick
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Richard Russell
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #19 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 5:39pm » |
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on Mar 20th, 2015, 12:56am, Mystic wrote:| I'm sure they will watch carefully and draw a fine line between "mention" and anything else. |
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Somebody on the LB forum has followed up an old message from Stefan stating "You can't create controls in a loop". Of course you can create controls in a loop in LBB and this would make the task of the enquirer much easier.
So, would responding with this information about LBB be "promoting" it or just "mentioning" it? Would somebody who can still post to the LB forum like to put this to the test?
Here's some code for LBB which will create a grid of between 1 and 8 rows of textboxes as requested by enquirer RNBW:
Code: number.of.rows = 8
for row = 1 to number.of.rows
for col = 0 to 4
textbox #w.tb, 10+col*55, row*20, 55, 20
maphandle #w.tb, "#w.tb";row;col
next col
next row
open "Textbox grid" for window as #w
#w.tb42 "Some text"
wait
Richard.
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AAW
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #20 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 6:06pm » |
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on Mar 20th, 2015, 5:39pm, Richard Russell wrote:So, would responding with this information about LBB be "promoting" it or just "mentioning" it? Would somebody who can still post to the LB forum like to put this to the test?
Here's some code for LBB which will create a grid of between 1 and 8 rows of textboxes as requested by enquirer RNBW:
Richard. |
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I have logged in to answer your question.
This is not about the difference between "mentioning" and "promoting." Your code works in LBB, but not in LB. We prefer not to confuse readers, so code that does not work in regular LB will be discouraged. Mentioning that LBB offers a different solution, with a link to this forum would be fine.
Edited to correct typo.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2015, 6:07pm by AAW » |
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Mystic
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Re: Banned from the LB Community Forum
« Reply #21 on: Mar 20th, 2015, 6:30pm » |
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on Mar 20th, 2015, 6:06pm, AAW wrote:| Mentioning that LBB offers a different solution, with a link to this forum would be fine. |
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Sounds good to me. 
I guess I can go over and make the reference... Might want to stick this code in a different forum though to avoid confusion even further.
I can do it later if I don't see Richard relocate it or start a new thread.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2015, 6:31pm by Mystic » |
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- Rick
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RNBW
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Variable Number Of Rows Of Texboxes
« Reply #23 on: Mar 22nd, 2015, 10:59am » |
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on Mar 20th, 2015, 5:39pm, Richard Russell wrote:Somebody on the LB forum has followed up an old message from Stefan stating "You can't create controls in a loop". Of course you can create controls in a loop in LBB and this would make the task of the enquirer much easier.
So, would responding with this information about LBB be "promoting" it or just "mentioning" it? Would somebody who can still post to the LB forum like to put this to the test?
Here's some code for LBB which will create a grid of between 1 and 8 rows of textboxes as requested by enquirer RNBW:
Code: number.of.rows = 8
for row = 1 to number.of.rows
for col = 0 to 4
textbox #w.tb, 10+col*55, row*20, 55, 20
maphandle #w.tb, "#w.tb";row;col
next col
next row
open "Textbox grid" for window as #w
#w.tb42 "Some text"
wait
Richard. |
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------------------------------------------
Richard
You are the only one of the respondents who understood my problem in that the number of rows could be any figure between 1 and 8. Your solution does produce a grid which can be varied as I require. I'm now investigating how I can best incorporate it into my program.
Whilst I am posting this might I add my support and say how disappointed I am that you have decided to stop supporting LBB. I use both BBC Basic for Windows and LB/LBB. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but LBB provides a wonderful link between the two.
Also being retired, I know how much programming keeps my mind active. Can I suggest that if you have currently made your mind up. Leave it for a while and then reconsider and if you still feel the same in 6 months time then fair enough. I'm sure you have a lot on your plate with BBC Basic for Windows, which you have recently updated. I think all we devotees can only thank you for what you have done so far.
Thank you
Ray :( :D
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